Sales Discovery Training: Building a World-Class Programme

Disclaimer: This article was created in collaboration with Hyperbound, who sponsored the content. It contains affiliate links, meaning I may earn a commission if you book a demo or make a purchase through these links, at no extra cost to you. These partnerships support the blog, allowing me to continue providing free, valuable content. While sponsored, the insights shared are based on thorough research, direct experience, and a genuine belief in the solutions I recommend. Everything I write is driven by my commitment to provide the highest educational value to my readers.

Introduction

Discovery is undeniably one of the most crucial components of the sales cycle.

It’s often said that a closing problem is usually a discovery problem – if you haven’t uncovered the prospect’s pain, understood how it ties to higher business priorities, and quantified it enough to create urgency, you’re unlikely to drive potential buyers to act.

Yet, despite its importance, I’m frequently asked how to build an effective sales discovery training programme that truly equips reps to master this phase.

Many struggle with structuring it, deciding how much information to include, and ensuring the training is both memorable and impactful.

The first thing to highlight, as some of the best sellers out there would probably do, discovery isn’t just a sales stage; it’s a way of operating throughout the entire sales cycle.

Done correctly, discovery forms the foundation upon which every other aspect of the sales process is built.

It’s an ongoing practice where you continually develop your understanding of the prospect’s goals, strategies, initiatives, challenges, and needs – possibly reaching the point, like the best sellers do, where you can articulate their situation better than they can themselves.

In this article, I’ll explore how to build a top-tier sales discovery training programme that drives results.

I’ll cover the importance of structured training, key elements of a successful discovery call, and how to create a curriculum tailored to your team’s needs.

Additionally, I’ll delve into the phases of effective sales discovery training and evaluation levels, from initial learning to mastery, and highlight how integrating AI role-play capabilities in the right way can significantly transform and enhance the impact of your programme.

We’re in an exciting era of limitless possibilities with technology, so let’s dive in!

The phases of an effective training programme

To maximise the effectiveness of an initiative and the value it brings to an organisation, programmes and their evaluation activities should be viewed in three phases: planning, execution, and value demonstration.

Phase 1: Planning

In the planning phase of a programme, it is essential to carry out critical tasks that enable the programme to deliver value to the organisation.

Enablement professionals should broaden their understanding of training design and development to encompass more than just the creation of the training programme itself.

This broader approach should include preparing managers and participants for training, developing post-training support and accountability measures, and setting up the evaluation tools that will be used throughout the programme.

During this phase, the first thing you’d want to do is identify the Level 4 Results (in the Kirkpatrick Model terminology) that your programme is aimed at driving.

These results should be determined collaboratively with key stakeholders in the organisation to ensure they reflect tangible business performance outcomes.

These can be divided into leading indicators and lagging indicators (or desired outcomes).

Leading indicators are metrics that predict future performance.

In the context of discovery, these could include the number of practice discovery calls completed or the accuracy in using open-ended and probing questions during role-plays or actual calls.

On the other hand, lagging indicators measure past performance, such as the conversion rate from discovery calls to the next stage in the sales process (or buying process) or the average win rate following high-quality discovery.

These metrics ultimately contribute to overarching business outcomes, like Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR).

The clear articulation of these metrics sets the expectations for the return on expectations (ROE) of the programme, or, in other words, what a successful training initiative is expected to deliver to the key business stakeholders, highlighting how well their expectations are met.

The concept of ROE, introduced in The New World Kirkpatrick Model, is something I find particularly valuable.

Unlike return on investment (ROI), which focuses on isolating the value of the training programme itself and is calculated after the fact, ROE encourages collaboration between enablement and the business.

ROI tends to be a defensive and reactive measure, with little to no cooperation between enablement professionals and the business.

It often overlooks the contributions of business leaders, sales managers, training participants, and others who played a role in supporting and driving accountability after the training.

The subsequent step in the planning process is to determine the specific actions sellers need to perform on the job to maximise the business outcomes that stakeholders aim to influence, as mentioned above.

Once the critical behaviours are clearly identified, it’s essential to explore and determine which interventions, including training, might effectively address the current performance gaps or shortcomings in achieving desired outcomes.

Training is just one of many potential solutions, and even if deemed necessary, it must be paired with a post-training support and accountability package – a combination of systems and processes designed to reinforce, monitor, encourage, and reward the execution of these behaviours on the job.

Developing this post-programme plan is arguably the most crucial part of the process, as it ensures the training’s long-term impact on key organisational results.

Additionally, during the planning phase, it’s important to design and develop the tools that will be used to evaluate the programme as it unfolds.

Evaluation should be integrated into the entire learning and development process, rather than treated as an afterthought.

(While I use the New World Kirkpatrick Model, there is a number of sales training evaluation models to choose from.)

Phase 2: Execution

The execution phase of an initiative encompasses not only the training programme or event itself but also the preparatory activities and the subsequent support and accountability measures.

Often, far more time and effort are invested in designing and developing the training programme than in the crucial post-training support.

It is essential for managers and supervisors to be equipped with materials to introduce the training to their teams, setting clear expectations for what should happen before, during, and after the programme.

For major initiatives, it can be beneficial to involve senior leadership to position the programme positively and make it a priority.

During the training, the facilitator should consistently highlight how the material will be applied in real-world scenarios, encouraging discussions around any potential challenges in implementation.

Since the critical behaviours and specific outcomes were predefined, these elements should be seamlessly integrated into the training itself. The trainer’s role is to make the material’s relevance clear to participants, rather than leaving it to them to make the connections.

The execution phase extends beyond the formal training.

As employees return to their roles, managers and supervisors should follow up, asking what participants learned and how they plan to implement their new knowledge.

If specific goals were not set before the training, they should be documented now, with progress being regularly reviewed.

To support managers who may be too busy, consider establishing a system where peers encourage and hold each other accountable for applying the training on the job.

I understand that there’s a lot to manage during this phase, but I’ve found a model that has consistently brought clarity and enabled me to execute training programmes with excellence throughout my enablement career: the 5 Stages of Sales Mastery Model, introduced in the book,The Building Blocks of Sales Enablement, by Mark Kunkle.

This model is briefly described and illustrated below:

I won’t delve into the stages in detail here, as we’ll use this model to guide the breakdown of the programme’s execution in the upcoming paragraphs. For now, keep this model in mind as a reference to help you follow along with the process I’ll describe.

Phase 3: Value demonstration

Once a programme has been running long enough to collect substantial data on its impact and organisational outcomes, you can begin compiling the initial interim reports or a final report to formally present the programme’s progress and results.

There are several ways to communicate the training value, such as through a dashboard, a verbal presentation with visual aids, or, less preferably, a written narrative report.

Before we proceed

The three phases outlined above are fundamental to any training programme you deliver within your organisation (e.g., they could be applied to a sales prospecting context).

However, since this article specifically focuses on the discovery aspect of sales, it’s important to clarify a few points before diving into the specifics of a successful sales discovery training programme.

Given that the planning and final evaluation phases of a sales discovery training programme can vary significantly based on factors like available resources, the maturity of your enablement function, and the scale of the programme, this article primarily focuses on the execution phase.

By illustrating a strong execution process, I aim to provide a foundational approach that can be adapted to different circumstances.

I also recognise that in reality, enablement professionals are often tasked with launching programmes within tight timeframes and with limited resources, which is why I’ll place greater emphasis on the execution phase.

This focus will equip you with practical approaches to increase the likelihood of success, even when the planning phase cannot be as extensive as desired.

Designing the sales discovery training curriculum

As mentioned earlier, we will assume that you’ve already completed the planning phase for your programme and have identified sales discovery training as the key to driving the desired results.

Additionally, we’ll assume that you’re developing this programme using your internal resources rather than outsourcing it to an external vendor.

At this stage, your focus should be on designing impactful training content, which is the cornerstone of your programme.

This is very important because even the most advanced training system can’t make up for content that fails to deliver real-world results. When training is the right solution, everything begins here.

In earlier paragraphs, we discussed the importance of identifying the critical behaviours that sellers must exhibit on the job to maximise their contribution to the business outcomes you aim to influence.

Your training content should be grounded in these behaviours.

With this in mind, we’ll now transition into breaking down the anatomy of a discovery call.

This will provide a framework for segmenting and categorising these key behaviours, helping you to focus your training design efforts.

Following that, we’ll explore some additional important considerations for learning design.

The anatomy of a discovery call

Understanding the basic anatomy of a discovery call, as outlined above, will greatly assist you in identifying and segmenting the critical behaviours a seller must perform.

This approach will, in turn, enable you to break down the training content into manageable chunks.

A first-time discovery call can be broken down in three main parts:

• Framing & upfront contract: This is the initial phase where the stage is set. Here, you align expectations with the prospect by discussing the agenda and securing an upfront contract that outlines what both parties aim to achieve from the call. It’s key that this stage is structured to establish clarity and mutual understanding from the get-go.

• Discovery dialogue: This is the heart of the call, where the sales conversation becomes more fluid. Here, you adapt your questions and responses based on the information the prospect shares. The goal is to uncover the prospect’s business priorities and objectives, pain points, needs and decision-making process while positioning yourself as a trusted advisor. This stage requires active listening and adaptability to ensure the conversation stays relevant and valuable for the prospect (similarly this also applies to cold calling training).

• Revisiting the upfront contract & next steps: In the final stage, you revisit the upfront contract to confirm that the call’s objectives have been met. You then structure the discussion around the next steps, ensuring that both you and the prospect are aligned on the path forward (which could also involve parting ways). This phase is also structured to avoid any ambiguity and to clearly outline what comes next.

For a deeper exploration of how to run an effective sales discovery call — including a more detailed breakdown of its anatomy and practical questioning techniques — you can refer to my complete discovery meeting template.

Framing & upfront contract

Before we delve into how to effectively execute an overall call framing, let’s first clarify the distinctions between agenda, framing, and upfront contracts:

• Agenda: This outlines what will be covered during the call and is usually discussed and agreed upon ahead of time via a calendar invite, email, or digital sales room.

• Framing: Framing involves setting the context live during the call. It’s about (re)setting the mutual agenda and ensuring that both parties’ expectations are aligned.

• Upfront contract: This is a verbal agreement at the beginning of the discovery call that outlines what the next steps will look like if both parties’ objectives are met during the conversation.

The appropriate combination of these three elements will make up the first structured part of the call and during this part a sales rep should:

The discovery dialogue

As I previously highlighted, the discovery dialogue is the most fluid and unstructured part of the call.

This is where you begin to deeply understand the prospect’s current state and their desired future state.

However, it’s important to avoid turning this part into an interrogation or, on the other extreme, a lengthy pitch.

An essential aspect of an effective discovery dialogue is delivering value throughout the conversation, rather than saving it all for the end.

A common mistake is to reserve the pitch or demo until the conclusion, which can lead to a one-sided presentation. I

nstead, integrate value snippets throughout the dialogue, such as customer references or stories that resonate with the prospect’s situation.

This approach keeps the prospect engaged and reinforces your position as a trusted advisor.

At this stage, skills like active listening, effective questioning, and storytelling, along with a solid understanding of the product or service’s value propositions and relevant customer references, are key for a successful interaction.

Revisiting the upfront contract & next steps

The seller should close for next steps in a structured way to avoid any ambiguity and ensure alignment on expectations.

During these final minutes, the upfront contract is revisited to confirm whether the call’s objectives have been met.

The conversation then shifts to mutually deciding whether to establish clear next steps (“qualifying in” from a rep’s perspective) or to part ways (“qualifying out”).

Learning design considerations

Now that we’ve outlined the basic anatomy of a discovery call, we can address key considerations when designing your training materials.

As you may know, there is a significant difference between merely presenting information and designing effective training. Here are some basic recommendations:

• Clearly define the learning outcomes for each session, based on the identified critical behaviours and ensure the activities within each session align with and support these defined outcomes.

• Break down and sequence the content into digestible chunks. The structure of the discovery call we examined can be instrumental here. For instance, consider developing one module focused on pre-call preparation and framing, another dedicated to the discovery dialogue with practices around effective questioning, storytelling, and value presentation, and a final module covering the revisiting of the upfront contract, closing for next steps, and post-call activities. This could also include practices for a potential second deep-dive discovery, depending on the complexity of your sales cycle. Remember, as mentioned earlier, discovery isn’t just a sales stage but an ongoing process throughout the cycle, so it’s ideal to include practices that extend beyond the initial discovery meeting.

• Distinguish between knowledge and skills and blend the content accordingly. This can be done by combining asynchronous learning (such as e-learning or other self-directed methods) with synchronous, instructor-led training, whether virtual or classroom-based. This approach could include a flipped classroom model with practice sessions, feedback loops, and opportunities for repetition.

• Incorporate real-world examples and case studies to demonstrate key concepts, and use simulations to model real-world scenarios. This helps to show how knowledge and skills are applied within actual processes and workflows.

• Plan follow-up activities and resources to reinforce and build upon the learning. Ideally, learnings from any session should be applied within the next 48 hours or revisited to enhance retention.

• Clearly define the context in which the training will be applied. For instance, if your company operates multiple go-to-market (GTM) motions – such as inbound with a smaller Average Contract Value (ACV) and outbound with a larger ACV – it’s crucial to specify whether the training content is applicable to both motions, just one, or only certain scenarios within a specific motion.

• If you are employing a specific sales methodology, consider integrating elements of it into the programme to ensure alignment and use the programme as a reinforcement tool for your methodology.

There’s much more to explore regarding evidence-based and performance-based instructional systems beyond these recommendations. If you’re interested in diving deeper, I recommend reading my article on sales training best practices.

Now, let’s move on to the actual execution of the training across the five stages of sales mastery:

• Learn

• Remember

• Practice

• Apply

• Master.

Executing the sales discovery training

Even the best-laid plans will fail without proper execution.

The two must go hand in hand, and I believe execution is where many enablement professionals struggle, often due to the roadblocks that arise and the challenge of managing all the elements that make training truly impactful.

In this section, we’ll break down the execution of sales discovery training into the five stages of sales mastery, ensuring you know what to do at each step.

You’ll also gain insights into how AI role-playing enhances the effectiveness of the programme and is poised to revolutionise the field of training and development.

Learn & remember stages

The Learn stage focuses on equipping sellers with the foundational knowledge required for the skill, using examples and assessments to validate their understanding.

This stage addresses the “what,” “why,” and “how” of the topic, and sometimes even the “when” and “where.”

On the other hand, the Remember stage is about maintaining that acquired knowledge and combating the natural decline in memory retention, known as the “forgetting curve.” This concept, first introduced by German psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus in the late 19th century, illustrates that memory retention drops sharply within the first 24 hours after learning.

Without conscious review or reinforcement, most of what we learn is forgotten relatively quickly.

In essence, just because learners have acquired new information doesn’t guarantee they will retain it over time.

The reason I’ve chosen to discuss these two stages together is that they are deeply interconnected; it’s difficult to separate them completely. The way you deliver your training should inherently consider that content needs to be reviewed and reinforced to ensure retention.

At these two stages, you should keep in mind some concepts related to the aforementioned forgetting curve. Specifically:

• Rapid decline: According to the forgetting curve, memory retention drops sharply within the first 20 minutes to an hour after learning, with approximately 50-60% of newly acquired information being forgotten within that timeframe. This decline continues significantly, with about 70% of the information being lost after 24 hours. The rate of forgetting slows down after the first day, but by around 7 days, up to 90% of the original information may be forgotten without reinforcement.

• Review helps retention: Regular review or repetition of the material can significantly slow down the forgetting process. Each time the material is reviewed, the curve flattens out, indicating better retention.

• Spacing effect: Spacing out learning sessions over time (as opposed to cramming) is more effective in combating the forgetting curve. This approach helps to solidify information in long-term memory.

At these stages, many of the learning design recommendations previously discussed apply directly because this phase is all about delivering the sales discovery training content you’ve created.

Ideally, this training should occur through a blend of asynchronous learning (e.g., e-learning or self-directed methods) and synchronous, instructor-led training, whether virtual or classroom-based.

I’d recommend incorporating elements that stimulate kinaesthetic learning, such as peer discussions, case scenarios, and practical exercises. These activities engage learners beyond the visual and auditory, helping them internalise the material through hands-on application.

Additionally, knowledge checks, case study tasks, presentations, and teach-backs serve dual purposes: they validate comprehension and reinforce what has been learned.

However, to effectively combat the forgetting curve, you need to go a step further by incorporating reinforcement strategies.

One effective approach is spaced repetition – a method where the material is reviewed at increasing intervals over time.

This can be implemented through follow-up live sessions, such as check-ins, Q&A sessions, and peer discussions, particularly after completing an e-learning module.

These sessions not only reinforce the content but also provide opportunities for clarification and deeper understanding.

Furthermore, consider using micro-learning modules linked to the main training. These bite-sized pieces of content, delivered via email or a learning management system (LMS), can serve as regular touchpoints that help to solidify the training over time.

The micro-learning content could include brief recaps, quick quizzes, or even reminders of key concepts, all designed to keep the material fresh in the learners’ minds.

In terms of evaluation at these initial stages, you’ll focus on Level 1 and 2 evaluations (in the Kirkpatrick Model terminology).

These assessments will help you gauge the immediate reactions of the participants as well as measure their learning.

Level 1 evaluation

When evaluating Level 1, there are two primary methods: formative and summative. Formative methods assess learner engagement during the training, while summative methods evaluate the outcomes after the training has concluded.

Here are some examples of formative methods you could use:

• Trainer observation: Gauge how well the group is engaging by using your senses, even in a virtual instructor-led session. While more challenging online, it’s still possible to monitor attention and participation.

• Pulse check: Briefly pause the training to ask participants how they’re finding the session. This can be done at any point, such as before or after a break. These checks can be integrated into the programme design or added spontaneously if the trainer senses an issue.

• Dedicated observer: For new, high-priority, or costly programmes, consider having a dedicated observer monitor the dynamics of the session. If you do this, introduce the observer to the group and clarify that their role is to assess the trainer’s performance. This approach can also be adapted for virtual settings.

• Virtual pulse-check: In an e-learning environment, incorporate a “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” feature that allows learners to quickly rate different sections of the training. This serves as a virtual pulse check, helping trainers assess engagement and gather feedback on the programme’s effectiveness.

The advantage of using formative methods is that they allow you to make timely adjustments to your training approach and content, enhancing engagement and satisfaction by showing learners that their feedback is valued.

When it comes to summative evaluation methods, post-training surveys are the primary tool to consider.

Focus your post-programme survey on key elements that you plan to consistently track and compare over time, across different programmes.

For example, you might evaluate participants’ overall satisfaction with the programme, their engagement based on how the training was delivered, the relevance of the material to their specific job roles, and their general assessment of the programme’s quality.

Another important aspect to consider is the timing of these evaluations.

Conducting Level 1 evaluations immediately after the training can yield a higher response rate but may limit the depth of the feedback. Participants might only provide limited insights immediately following the session, as they haven’t had the chance to apply what they’ve learned.

Waiting a few days or even weeks can offer more meaningful feedback, as participants will have had time to reflect on the programme’s relevance and effectiveness after attempting to apply the concepts in their actual work environment.

This delay can also help neutralise any biases that might arise from a particularly charismatic instructor, leading to more objective feedback on the training’s actual value.

For new and mission-critical programmes, consider using interviews and focus groups to gather more in-depth information.

Additionally, for new employees or supervisors, it might be beneficial to revisit their feedback after several months to assess what they wish they had known upfront and how the training could have better supported them in their roles.

Level 2 evaluation

In a Level 2 evaluation, five key components are typically assessed: knowledge, skills, attitude, confidence, and commitment.

To evaluate knowledge, it’s essential to integrate activities into the training that naturally test participants’ understanding.

In an in-person event, this could be through group discussions where participants explain key concepts and report back to the class. For e-learning modules, incorporating tests or quizzes within the module itself helps learners continuously gauge their comprehension.

Evaluating skill requires participants to demonstrate what they’ve learned – this can’t be done with a simple oral or written test. The test should involve the practical performance of the skill, ideally in a real or simulated environment.

Role-plays and simulations are excellent methods for this. With AI role-playing software, the limitations of traditional role-plays can be overcome, allowing for more dynamic and scalable practice, as we’ll explore in the upcoming section on practice.

When it comes to attitude, it’s important to assess whether participants see the value in applying the skills they’ve learned.

Informally, this can be gauged through the trainer’s observations (though this is harder in e-learning settings).

For example, are participants actively engaged in discussions, or are they distracted by their phones?

Are they asking questions and contributing, or sitting quietly?

Do they appear interested, or do they seem disengaged?

Formative evaluations of attitudes (meaning they are performed during the training) can help identify if additional discussion is needed around expectations for on-the-job performance.

Confidence and commitment to apply new skills are fostered by a well-structured training program that offers ample opportunities for practice, feedback, and discussion.

New or challenging skills often require dedicated time for participants to voice concerns or ask questions before they’re expected to apply them on the job. Providing this opportunity for open dialogue can make the difference between a successful or failed initiative, removing barriers to performance and enabling the organisation to move toward its goals more efficiently.

For sales discovery training, it’s also wise to include questions on confidence and commitment in pre- and post-training surveys.

As a summary, here is a list of common formative (during the training) and summative methods (post-training) for evaluating Level 2 learning:

In conclusion, when training components are well-planned and executed, yielding strong Level 1 reactions, Level 2 learning is likely to follow naturally. This progression typically happens when participants have engaged effectively with the training content.

However, while knowledge and attitude can be evaluated early on, evaluating skills typically becomes more relevant at the practice stage, as this is when participants can demonstrate their ability to apply what they’ve learned.

Personal experience

Aside from what I’ve mentioned so far, I wanted to briefly share a more personal experience regarding how I’ve approached the execution of a sales discovery training programme in my specific context.

For knowledge transfer, I leaned heavily on asynchronous learning.

While I didn’t have access to a dedicated e-learning platform, I was able to leverage our digital sales room, which features a powerful editor, to create a similar experience.

I crafted content that included a balanced mix of text, images, videos, and various interactive assessments.

I find this e-learning-style approach more effective because it offers flexibility and autonomy for the learner – especially beneficial in companies with sales teams spread across multiple countries.

It’s also a resource that remains accessible, allowing enablers and managers to refer back to it when necessary.

I divided the programme into three core modules, as outlined in the “Designing the Sales Discovery Training Curriculum” section.

These modules covered pre-call preparation and call framing, the discovery dialogue, and revisiting the up-front contract, next steps, and post-call activities.

The discovery dialogue module was designed to be applicable not just to the first discovery meeting but throughout the entire sales cycle.

Each module included knowledge assessments alongside practical assignments to be submitted, as well as realistic role-play practice using the Hyperbound platform (I’ll dive deeper into this in the practice section).

In essence, although practice continues post-e-learning, much of it was already integrated into the learning process.

Reps were expected to dedicate 2 to 2.5 hours per week to learning, which equated to roughly 5% of their weekly working hours. This could be done independently or through self-organised study groups.

This autonomous learning was supplemented by weekly, live, virtual instructor-led sessions. These sessions featured peer discussions on selected topics, general Q&As, planned teach-backs, and initial feedback on submitted assignments.

Additionally, I introduced multiple levels of certification tied to the programme. These certifications required increasingly advanced levels of practice and application over time to achieve, but I’ll cover that in more detail in the following sections.

Practice stage

The Practice stage focuses on developing and honing skills, turning knowledge into behaviours – which, as we discussed earlier, should align with the critical behaviours identified during the planning phase.

This is where things often become challenging.

If I were to highlight a common point of failure in many training programmes, it would be right here.

Translating what is learned into actionable behaviour is notoriously difficult, which is exactly why the Practice stage is so critical – it bridges the gap between learning and real-world application.

While practice has always been a fundamental component of training, and most would agree it should be embedded in any effective programme, the reality is that traditional methods of practising sales skills, such as role-plays and simulations, are often quite limited.

(Here are some ideas for sales training activities you can use to enrich the Practice stage.)

This isn’t just my observation; it’s echoed by many practitioners I’ve worked with and spoken to.

Traditionally, sales role-playing is conducted in one of three main ways:

• Members of the enablement team and/or sales managers/leaders practice with reps.

• External trainers or coaches are brought in to facilitate.

• Salespeople practice in peer-to-peer setups.

Some LMS platforms have also introduced video-based role-playing, where reps record themselves pitching or practising talk tracks.

One major issue with these methods is inefficiency.

They tend to consume a lot of time from both reps and facilitators while rarely delivering the level of realism needed to adequately prepare reps for real-world sales scenarios.

This also limits scalability. As sales teams grow, it becomes increasingly difficult to provide every rep with the necessary practice opportunities, making these traditional methods hard to sustain.

Additionally, traditional role-plays often fail to replicate the complexity of real sales interactions. Sales reps deal with diverse personas, unexpected objections, and emotional cues in real conversations – factors that are tough to replicate in controlled environments.

Without these elements, traditional role-playing doesn’t fully prepare reps for real-world situations.

In peer-to-peer role-plays, it’s common for participants to lose interest, resulting in a poorly executed “prospect” role. Sellers disengage, and the practice becomes less effective.

Furthermore, replicating different buyer personas and varying sales journeys can be difficult to achieve, limiting the value of the exercise.

Another key limitation of traditional role-plays is the lack of real-time, detailed feedback. Without immediate feedback, reps may repeat mistakes, leading to slower improvement.

Effective feedback loops are rare in these setups, which impacts the ability to refine behaviours in real time.

The forgetting curve plays a critical role here.

Sales skills that are practised once or twice in traditional role-plays are rarely reinforced enough to stick.

Without frequent, spaced-out practice sessions, it’s easy for reps to revert to old habits, especially when facing on-the-job pressures. Sustained practice is necessary to achieve confident, on-the-job skill application, which traditional role-plays often lack.

For many organisations, particularly enablement professionals, one of the biggest challenges is connecting Level 2 and Level 3 evaluations (using the Kirkpatrick’s Model terminology).

In other words, bridging the gap between well-trained employees and actual on-the-job behavioural change is necessary to demonstrate the training’s impact on business outcomes.

In the past year, I’ve been fortunate enough to explore a new category of AI role-playing software – selecting Hyperbound as my tool of choice, given its hyper-realistic conversation quality – and it has addressed many of the limitations I’ve encountered with traditional methods.

I genuinely believe this technology is poised to transform training and enablement.

In the following sections, I’ll delve into how I’ve leveraged this technology specifically in the context of sales discovery training.

Harnessing AI role-playing for realistic sales practice

Having explored the key limitations of traditional practice methods, let’s explore how you can integrate AI role-playing into your sales discovery programme.

The first step is to clearly define the key buyer personas your reps will encounter during discovery.

By “define,” I mean developing a detailed, structured profile for each persona, which will then serve as the foundation for the AI bots you create on platforms like Hyperbound or similar.

If you’re unsure where to start, here’s a proven structure for building a buyer persona profile that I explored in depth in my article on sales enablement assets:

In my case, since my organisation mostly targets sales teams, I identified four key buyer personas: sales management, sales leadership, sales operations, and sales enablement.

I developed a general profile for each using the framework mentioned above, then proceeded to create a corresponding AI bot for each persona.

The outcome is what you can see in the image below:

What’s particularly interesting is that even if you don’t have a highly detailed buyer persona to start with, the Hyperbound platform I used allows you to create quite realistic AI bots with minimal input.

You’ll need to provide a job title, select a call scenario (e.g., solution aware and asking lots of questions, or looking for help building a business case), and describe the buyer’s situation – like where they work, their pain points, the tools they use, and common objections.

Finally, you’ll describe the product or service you’re selling.

With that information, you can simply click “generate AI draft,” and the platform will create a comprehensive draft of the bot, which you can easily tweak and refine as needed.

It goes without saying that the more specific and detailed the information, the better the quality of the bot – which is why I suggested the buyer persona framework earlier.

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Using different AI bot modalities for different practice types

Once you’ve created the full AI discovery bots based on your buyer personas, you can have reps practice a complete discovery call from start to finish, following the discovery call structure I outlined earlier, or any other framework you’ve developed.

I can confidently say that these conversations will feel quite natural, almost as realistic as live discussions with actual prospects (at least in my experience with the Hyperbound platform).

You can try out 9 different AI roleplay scenarios I built here.

But we can go even further by exploring how different bot modalities can help reps focus on specific parts of the discovery call for more targeted practice.

I would suggest using three main modalities (all with the option to let reps share their screens with the bot):

• Discovery calls: These are the full AI personas we discussed earlier, allowing reps to practice an entire discovery call. The bot will interact with the rep just like a real prospect, giving them the chance to refine their skills in a complete, natural flow.

• Resume calls: This modality builds on the AI personas you’ve created but allows you to start mid-conversation, simulating a specific point in a call rather than beginning from the start. When the rep presses “Call,” the bot picks up from a designated point in the dialogue. This is particularly useful for practicing specific parts of a call, such as handling objections, addressing questions, or refining a particular scenario that reps often encounter in the middle of a sales interaction.

• Focus calls: These bots are programmed to recite pre-set lines (e.g., “Tell me more about your solution”) when the rep initiates the call. Unlike discovery and resume calls, the bot won’t respond beyond the scripted prompt. This modality is perfect for practising specific talk tracks repeatedly, isolating them from the full conversation to help reps master them

Now, let’s refer back to the anatomy of a discovery call and explore how I’ve utilised these different modalities to help reps practise various parts of the programme.

For focus calls, I’ve used them to drill reps on specific segments of the discovery call, such as the upfront contract, delivering customer stories, and pitching at a high level.

Each of these sections had a dedicated bot that would provide a unique prompt, and then the rep would recite their talk track, refining it with each repetition.

For resume calls, I leveraged them to enable reps to practice the core of the discovery dialogue – particularly active listening and using a mix of open-ended and probing questions.

In this case, the call resumes directly after the framing (including the upfront contract), allowing the rep to dive straight into questioning. I find that questioning skills are often underrated but are crucial for sales success.

Historically, it has been difficult to give reps the opportunity to practice new and varied questions. With resume calls, that limitation is removed, and it significantly elevates their skill level in this area.

Lastly, for discovery calls, this modality allows the rep to execute a full discovery call following the entire structure taught during training.

Here, they apply everything they’ve learned and practised in more isolated drills via focus and resume calls.

In my case, these practice modalities were embedded at different stages of the e-learning programme, but also tied to the certification process (which I’ll expand on during the exploration of the Mastery stage).

Ongoing practice post-training was expected, with reps achieving specific milestones and maintaining quality standards.

Scorecards and AI-powered feedback

When reps are practising with the tool both during and after the training, the question arises: how can you ensure they are truly improving and progressing in the right direction?

While practice is essential, it’s equally important that they practice the right way, staying aligned with what’s expected.

This is where scorecards and immediate feedback can make all the difference.

Scorecards serve as a tool to assess the effectiveness and quality of specific sales activities.

They typically consist of a set of criteria, often framed as questions, designed to evaluate various aspects of the call — in this case, specifically a discovery call.

In an AI role-playing platform like Hyperbound, you can link specific scorecards to various bots.

For example, after a discovery training session, you could create a comprehensive scorecard to automatically evaluate the entire discovery call structure whenever a rep practices with the relevant AI persona.

Additionally, you could develop more targeted scorecards to assess particular aspects, such as the quality of the questions asked, the upfront contract, and so on, whenever reps are using bot modalities like resume calls and focus calls.

The AI would then score the reps based on these established criteria, along with standard metrics like talk-to-listen ratio, filler words, talk speed, and others, all of which can have pre-defined ideal ranges.

The value here lies in the accuracy, scalability, and consistency of the scoring, enabling you to track improvement over time.

As reps practice, you can measure their progress from initial calls to more advanced stages.

This is where scorecards help perform Level 2 evaluations of skills, proving that practical learning has occurred and that it’s being translated into measurable skill development.

Additionally, platforms like Hyperbound offer detailed analytics, allowing you to track how much reps are practising, filter by bot types, and capture their improvement or worsening trends in specific scorecard areas.

Furthermore, for any scorecard criteria that aren’t met, the AI can provide detailed feedback, explaining why certain elements weren’t fulfilled and offering constructive suggestions for improvement.

This becomes particularly powerful as it empowers reps to take control of their development, without always needing a manager to review their calls — something that rarely happens consistently, even with real calls, let alone practice sessions.

For those sales managers who are committed to supporting their team’s practice, the AI-generated feedback can help them quickly pinpoint key areas for improvement and drive meaningful conversations about specific action steps. Managerial support, as we know, is a critical factor for the success of any training programme.

As a reference, I’ll conclude this section by leaving you with an example of an effective questioning discovery scorecard I created in Hyperbound following the administered training:

Keep in mind that the information entered in the back-end of the tool would be more comprehensive than what you see in this example, in order to better support the AI’s evaluation and feedback.

Future prospects

Before moving forward to the Apply stage of the sales discovery training programme, I want to take a moment to share where I believe AI role-playing technology is heading in the near future. There are a couple of areas that I find particularly exciting.

• Firstly, bots will soon be created automatically based on the actual sales conversations your reps have in real calls, removing the need to manually create buyer personas from scratch. This is significant because buyer personas can quickly become outdated as market conditions and buyer behaviours evolve. By leveraging real-time conversations, bots will remain relevant and adaptable.

• Additionally, AI feedback will become even more detailed, inching closer to what we might consider personalised coaching. While reps can already receive an initial level of feedback from AI, as mentioned earlier, this can’t yet replace proper coaching. True coaching involves not just identifying problems but also facilitating a dialogue to uncover solutions – a level of diagnostic and interactive support that AI is not yet capable of (but likely will be in the future).

• Another exciting development is the future integration of detailed analytics comparing how reps perform in real-life scenarios versus practice sessions. One of the conversations I’ve often had with Hyperbound is how, even though reps may improve based on their scorecard results during practice, this doesn’t always translate into demonstrating the same critical behaviours on actual sales calls. Being able to monitor and bridge the gap between practice performance and real-world application will be crucial for sales enablers and leaders, adding immense value. I am aware that in the near future, platforms will be able to connect with conversational intelligence tools to analyse reps’ performance across both real and practice calls, offering a clearer picture of skill transfer.

To conclude this section, I want to highlight a compelling definition of training shared by enablement expert Nick Lawrence: “Facilitated practice on work-related tasks that closely resembles work contexts, paired with feedback that improves or confirms performance expectations.” This is exactly what AI role-plays are starting to enable – and it’s clear that this technology is the future of sales training.

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Apply stage

The Apply stage is all about taking the newly acquired knowledge and practised skills and applying them in real-life scenarios.

Just because reps can demonstrate these skills in training and practice doesn’t necessarily mean they will apply them successfully in live situations. There’s still work to be done to ensure that the benefits of the discovery training fully translate into effective performance on the sales floor.

At this stage, you want to leverage the right “tools” to ensure the smooth and consistent application of those newly developed skills.

One important element is mentoring.

Reps might need some light guidance before they jump into a live call, whether it’s a quick chat with their manager for last-minute advice or a manager shadowing the call itself. In some cases, mentors may step in with quick adjustments or offer feedback post-call.

For example, a manager might focus on specific areas like how well the rep executed the upfront contract or how effectively they responded to objections. The goal here is to provide practical support as the rep begins to apply their training independently, reinforcing the behaviours they practiced.

Another critical support comes from job aids and playbook items that should be created from the more extensive training content.

These are tools that act as quick-reference guides for reps as they navigate real calls.

For example, a set of discovery questions can provide a structured approach, helping reps ask the right open-ended or probing questions during the discovery dialogue.

A discovery call structure – perhaps a simple flowchart or checklist – keeps them aligned with the sequence of steps needed for a successful discovery call, ensuring nothing is overlooked.

Additionally, discovery scorecards allow both reps and their managers to evaluate how well they executed the discovery process – as discussed in the previous section on practice.

Meanwhile, talk tracks can provide reps with pre-crafted scripts to ensure consistent messaging, whether it’s setting the upfront contract, sharing customer stories, or wrapping up the call for next steps.

An exciting advancement in this area is the growing use of AI copilots, which can be integrated directly into the reps’ workflow. These tools can offer real-time support during calls, helping reps track their performance against best practices outlined in the playbook.

For example, an AI copilot might listen for key behaviours – like asking enough open-ended questions – and provide prompts if the rep starts veering off course (only if reps wish to and won’t find them distracting).

Post-call, the AI can deliver immediate feedback, helping the rep understand how well they adhered to the objectives of the call and the learnt best practices, whether they aligned with the customer’s pain points, and where they could improve for future calls.

Now, touching back upon the topic of AI role-playing, what’s interesting is that, because these types of tools are making practice much more aligned to real-life, reps can now reach the real-world application stage with significantly enhanced proficiency, bypassing the pitfalls of experiencing objection handling, pitching, and engaging with various personas for the first time during actual calls – a scenario best avoided.

With a platform like Hyperbound or the like, the practice and application stages are nearly blending together, vastly speeding up the journey to mastery.

AI-driven role-playing tools allow for continuous practice even beyond the confines of the initial training programme.

What’s particularly valuable here is the ability for managers to use these tools to give reps practice assignments to address specific areas for improvement based on real-life performance. If a manager notices a weakness in a rep’s approach, such as handling objections or probing for deeper insights, they can easily direct that rep to the platform to practice and refine that specific skill set.

To give an example, in my own experience, one of the most challenging areas to coach and develop has been effective questioning during sales discovery calls. Historically, it’s been difficult to create deliberate practice opportunities that target just this element of the call.

However, AI role-playing now offers the chance to focus specifically on practising certain types of questions, helping reps to build more confidence and fluency before they encounter similar challenges in live calls.

Level 3 evaluation

At this stage, we should be ready to assess whether the critical behaviours defined during the planning phase are being adhered to in real-life situations.

Critical behaviours need to be specific, observable, and measurable. In other words, you should be able to capture them on camera and be able to explain what’s happening.

To clarify this further, I’ve created an example table that contrasts some poorly written critical behaviour with a well-written one, specifically in the context of a sales discovery call:

In essence, this ties back to the concept we discussed earlier regarding scorecards.

If you’ve successfully aligned the scorecards with the training provided, clearly articulating the behaviours in an observable and measurable way, then the same scorecard used during the Practice stage should be applied here to assess behavioural adherence during the Apply stage, in real calls.

Ideally, you want to see an increase in adherence over time, evaluated at various checkpoints (soon, AI copilots alongside AI role-playing software will enable all of this at scale).

This is exactly what I did in my discovery programme.

Additionally, as we move through this stage of the learning and development process, post-training support and accountability become crucial.

A notable study conducted in 2006 by Dr. Robert O. Brinkerhoff, a professor emeritus at Western Michigan University and a leading expert on training evaluation, highlights this point.

In the study, two groups of training graduates were observed:

• Group 1: This group followed a traditional training approach, focusing heavily on designing, developing, and delivering the training event itself. However, little attention was given to pre-training preparation or post-training support. As a result, only 15% of participants ever attempted to apply what they had learned. 70% tried but failed due to issues such as differing expectations from their managers, lack of equipment, or discomfort with the new skills. The remaining 15% managed to sustain the new behaviours on the job.

• Group 2: The second group, while using the same resources, approached the training process differently. They spent 25% of their time identifying targeted outcomes with business leaders and preparing both participants and their supervisors for the training, discussing roles and expectations before, during, and after the event. Another 25% of their resources went into the training itself, and the remaining 50% was allocated to post-training support and ensuring the implementation of critical behaviours on the job. The results were vastly different, with 85% of the second group successfully applying and sustaining the new skills on the job, and only 5% never attempting to use the skills they had learned.

Although this training study was conducted in an area unrelated to sales discovery, the key takeaway remains the same: delivering a training programme alone is not enough. Post-training support and accountability are essential to reach the desired outcomes.

But what do I mean by post-training support and accountability?

This is a broad topic that could easily be explored in an entirely separate article.

However, I’ll summarise a few of the main components to consider.

At its core, post-training support and accountability is an integrated package of processes and systems designed to reinforce, monitor, encourage, and reward the performance of critical behaviours on the job.

The table below outlines these elements, grouped under two broad categories: support and accountability, with examples of specific approaches you can employ:

I’d like to wrap up this section by emphasising that if the necessary post-training support and accountability mechanisms at Level 3 are implemented effectively, leading to significant and sustained on-the-job application, it is highly probable that positive Level 4 leading indicators will naturally follow (in the Kirkpatrick Model terminology).

This progression tends to occur organically.

This brings us to the perfect segue into the final stage of sales mastery development.

At this point, we must continue to reinforce and double down on these mechanisms to ensure that the newly developed behaviours become second nature.

Mastery stage

The Mastery stage focuses on guiding and coaching sellers towards skill mastery and consistent performance outcomes, which ultimately impact business results over time.

Just because a rep has applied the skills doesn’t mean they’ve mastered them or will continue to perform at a high level without support.

At this point, the mechanisms to leverage involve monitoring performance through effective use of sales analytics, and most importantly, utilising field training and sales coaching to further support the rep’s development in the sales discovery process.

Both of these areas are disciplines in their own right and would require a separate article to explore in depth.

Luckily, I’ve already written an article on advanced sales coaching techniques, which covers the 4D Framework (for field training), the 4P Framework (for sales coaching), and the ROAM Model introduced by Mark Kunkle in The Building Blocks of Sales Enablement.

The last framework will help you diagnose the type of intervention needed between field training and sales coaching.

To briefly define the terms, field training is delivered by the manager, as opposed to formal training provided by the enablement team or organisation. It is more directive, where the manager provides clear instructions and may directly demonstrate the behaviour, either live or via recorded calls.

Sales coaching (specifically in the context of skills development, given that there are many types of sales coaching) is less directive and involves a formal process where managers engage their sellers in a way that encourages reflection, builds self-awareness, and helps reps define actionable next steps.

Sales coaching is best suited for reps who already understand what to do and how to do it but need guidance to refine their execution and achieve greater proficiency.

These activities remain part of the broader post-training support and accountability framework we discussed earlier. As your enablement maturity evolves, it may become essential to build more structured processes around post-training development.

This is where teaching sales managers to effectively carry out field training and coaching becomes very important.

Finally, it’s worth noting that AI role-playing software continues to play a vital role at this stage, offering a low-risk, high-impact environment for reps to refine their approaches based on the coaching feedback they receive from their managers.

Instead of testing new techniques directly in high-stakes situations, they can practice and improve through simulated conversations, ensuring greater confidence and effectiveness during live sales calls.

The value of certifications

To guide and motivate reps toward achieving discovery mastery, one approach I’ve found particularly successful is the use of certifications.

However, these certifications shouldn’t be thought of in the traditional sense of classroom learning or formal academic exams.

Instead, they serve as a structured set of criteria that reps must meet in order to earn the certification, with each criterion being directly tied to the practical tasks they’ll be performing in their role.

I discussed this topic of certifications in greater depth in my sales onboarding guide, should you wish to explore it further.

But in the context of discovery training, below is an example of the four levels of discovery certifications that I’ve implemented in recent discovery programmes.

The first two levels focus on proving that learning has taken place and that practice is being executed as expected.

With Hyperbound, I was able to track the amount of practice, review calls, and generate automatic scores for various call types using the scorecards.

The final two levels, on the other hand, are more focused on demonstrating real-world applications during live calls and achieving specific performance outcomes that align with broader business objectives. Naturally, the final level should be quite difficult to attain.

The idea is to create a sense of prestige, and in some cases, you could even tie physical rewards or monetary incentives to the highest level of certification.

Level 4 evaluation

We now reach the final level of training evaluation, in the context of the Kirkpatrick Model – level 4 results.

While mastering sales discovery skills is critical, it’s important to remember that the ultimate goal of driving proficiency is to deliver tangible business outcomes.

This is the stage where we shift our focus from skill development to measuring the business impact of that development, requiring us to evaluate both leading and lagging indicators.

Leading indicators are short-term signals that suggest reps are on track to achieve desired results.

In the case of sales discovery, some of these indicators might include the number of discovery calls conducted, the improvement in reps’ questioning techniques (like the use of probing and open-ended questions), or adherence to discovery structures as evaluated by a scorecard.

Certifications, particularly at the higher levels that include real-life performance metrics, can also act as leading indicators since they signal the rep’s progress in applying the skills.

On the other hand, lagging indicators focus on the tangible outcomes that the discovery training has helped to drive over time.

In this case, metrics such as the conversion rate from discovery calls to qualified opportunities, win rate improvements, or average deal size growth can be considered as part of the evaluation.

These reflect the long-term impact of the training programme and link back to overarching business objectives, such as ARR and revenue growth.

To effectively execute a Level 4 evaluation for sales discovery training, it’s paramount to collaboratively define what success looks like with stakeholders – as already discussed earlier in this article.

This involves clearly articulating both the leading and lagging indicators during the planning phase and regularly reviewing these throughout the post-training support period.

Incorporating both quantitative metrics like those mentioned above and qualitative feedback (e.g., manager observations from field training or sales coaching sessions) provides a holistic view of the programme’s impact.

Lastly, return on expectations (ROE) – as discussed earlier – can be used to measure the alignment between the training outcomes and the initial business expectations, ensuring a collaborative process between the sales enablement team and key business stakeholders.

Final thoughts on training evaluation

We know that the true value an organisation derives from training doesn’t stem from what was merely learned, but from what gets applied in practice. The real value comes from the changes in performance that the training ultimately drives.

In most organisations, it’s fair to say that training often results in predictable, underwhelming outcomes.

While some trainees may achieve significant results, the majority tend to show mediocre results at best.

Some employees use their new skills to deliver great results for their organisations, while others do not apply the learning at all.

Most may try applying some aspects, but notice little change, and eventually revert to their old ways of doing things.

However, I’ve consistently seen that, when training is executed well, there are always a few individuals who successfully apply what they’ve learned and deliver highly valuable outcomes. S

o, the problem isn’t that training doesn’t work – it’s that it doesn’t work frequently enough across a broad group of trainees.

This creates a powerful learning opportunity.

By studying those few exceptional cases, we can uncover the hidden potential of the training and build a strong business case for allocating more resources and time toward extending those successes to a larger group.

For evaluation, this means that calculating an “average” or mean outcome for training impact often leads to an incomplete picture, producing a mediocre assessment.

Another crucial point is that training alone rarely works.

As discussed earlier, success often depends on performance support and accountability measures.

Many training failures can be traced back to the lack or poor execution of these elements, rather than flaws in the training content itself.

To address these extremes and refine the evaluation process, Robert O. Brinkerhoff developed the Success Case Method (SCM), a structured approach to evaluate the most and least successful applications of training.

It starts with a survey where participants are asked to what extent they applied their learning to achieve meaningful results. This helps quantify the distribution of success and failure.

After identifying the extremes, in-depth interviews are conducted with both successful and unsuccessful participants to uncover specific factors that contributed to their outcomes.

The purpose of these interviews is to understand the conditions under which training works best, including external factors like feedback from managers or peer support, as well as specific actions participants took to apply their learning.

SCM goes beyond merely documenting results; it also extrapolates the unrealised value of training by calculating what could have been achieved if more participants had successfully applied their learning.

Here’s how realised and unrealised value are calculated:

1. Realised value is the concrete benefit that successful participants achieved. For instance, in a sales context, if a rep previously closed $50,000 worth of deals per quarter, but after mastering discovery skills through training, they now close $75,000, the realised value is the incremental $25,000 per quarter directly tied back to the training programme.

2. Unrealised value, on the other hand, reflects the potential gains missed by participants who did not fully apply the learning. Let’s say only 20% of sales reps improved their discovery process and achieved a revenue increase. The unrealised value could be estimated by calculating what would have been gained if an additional 50% of the sales team had achieved the same improvements. If 10 reps failed to capture the extra $25,000 per quarter, the unrealised value would be $250,000 in lost potential per quarter.

The Success Case Method complements the Kirkpatrick Model by digging deeper into the most successful applications of training.

While the Kirkpatrick levels offer a broad assessment, SCM zooms in on individual success stories, making it particularly useful for refining strategies to maximise overall effectiveness. I believe SCM can be a game-changer when the Kirkpatrick evaluation levels don’t tell the full story and fail to capture the real potential of the training.

Conclusion

Writing this article has been a valuable reflection exercise. It has pushed me to carefully break down the steps required to execute an effective sales discovery training programme.

As always, I find it incredibly useful to draw from my personal experience and distil what I do into clear, actionable principles and guidelines that others in the sales and enablement space can adopt to elevate their approach.

It’s through these moments of reflection that I can better articulate the strategies that have worked for me and, hopefully, support others in developing their teams more effectively.

In this article, I explored how to build a top-tier sales discovery training programme that drives real results.

I delved into the critical phases of an effective programme – planning, execution, and value demonstration – and examined the importance of not only delivering structured training but also reinforcing it with post-training support mechanisms like field training, coaching, and AI-enhanced practice environments.

I also discussed how integrating certifications can motivate reps towards mastery by setting clear milestones tied to practical tasks they must perform in their roles.

When it comes to evaluating the success of such programmes, I explored the Kirkpatrick Model, particularly focusing on the need to align training outcomes with business objectives (Level 4).

Leading and lagging indicators were highlighted as essential for assessing both the short-term behaviours and the long-term business impacts of discovery training.

Additionally, I touched on the Success Case Method (SCM), which offers a complementary way to dive deeper into the most successful applications of training, helping to extrapolate the true potential value that could be realised if more participants fully applied their learning.

I also wrote another resource you might want to check out my article where I share examples of sales training programmes (including discovery) to see how everything I wrote here is put into action.

Ultimately, the blend of structured training, continuous practice, strong post-training support, and effective evaluation is what makes a sales discovery programme successful, ensuring that reps don’t just learn – they apply, perform, and master the skills that drive business outcomes.